My Friend’s Father

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SivaRamanathan
Posts: 1168
Joined: 14 May 2011, 20:30

My Friend’s Father

#1 Post by SivaRamanathan » 02 Oct 2012, 20:06

Whenever I went to Nakulan’s house
to chew the cud of poetry
we sometimes talked about Ivanious.
the university where he taught literature
before retiring, before the rumour
of Professor Carey pushed itself ugly with ash
like the snake pill tablet when lit.
How boy students shook underneath their pants
in simple fright. How the shadows would leap
on the walls, how he ate them up like ‘the bad wolf.’
I let Nakulan talk; after all he was Carey’s colleague.

Mrs. Carey knocked at publishers with her autobiography
‘The Iodine Puppet’ but it was not enough to feed her children.
Mrs. Carey taught at All Saints’, an all women’s college.
I merely listened to that and about Panicker’s wife turning mad
thinking Nakulan was hallucinating. When Christobel
started her wheeze I thought the truth was spreading
and willed Cristobel to talk it out. Christobel
went into parables of sin. Why they made a statue of Carey
and put it up at the entrance is still a mystery.

After his death
bird droppings made pox marks and outsiders pelleted paper arrows.
Christobel died leaving her kids and Gods know what happened
to Carey’s sons.

All this happened forty years ago.
I do not like morals in poems
even if they sparkle and forty years is enough
to take a kindly stance, but why his own students?
Why not his colleagues?

India it is catching up. Writers living together,
not that it did not exist. There are workshops, Gay days once in a year,
and parental understanding too if you do not choose to get married.
As for Nakulan he remained a bachelor, lusting after his Sushila
for we have all those Sushila poems. I remember
Nakulan’s mother who blessed me for my wedding with twenty rupees
and how I bought a packet of Dunhill cigarettes with those extremely long filters.

FranktheFrank
Posts: 1983
Joined: 02 Mar 2016, 18:07
Location: Between the mountains and the sea

Re: My Friend’s Father T.K. Doraiswamy

#2 Post by FranktheFrank » 08 Oct 2017, 22:20

Siva, I have taken liberties with this poem that I like very much.
I hope you don't mind me rearranging it into triplets, editing
slightly. I can't understand why it brought absolutely no comment
over the years. It still is at draft level, but I do think it is worth
retelling in your own words.

My Friend’s Father T.K. Doraiswamy
by SivaRamanathan

Whenever I went to Nakulan’s house to chew the cud of poetry
we talked about Mars Ivanios and his college where he taught
literature, before the rumour of Professor Carey pushed its ugly

head in like the snake pill tablet when lit. How boys' trousers
shook with fright and shadows leapt on the walls, and how he ate
them up like a bad wolf. I let, Carey’s former colleague, Nakulan talk.

Mrs. Carey knocked at publishers doors with her autobiography
‘The Iodine Puppet’ but it was not enough to feed her children.
She taught at the woman's college - All Saints. I listened about

Panicker’s wife turning mad, thinking Nakulan was hallucinating.
When Christobel started to wheeze I thought the truth
was spreading and willed Christobel to talk it out. She went

into the parables of sin. Why they made a statue of Carey and put
it up at the entrance is still a mystery. After his death bird-droppings
scarred his visage like the pox, passers-by pelleted paper arrows.

Christobel died leaving behind her kids, God know what happened
to Carey’s sons. All this happened forty years ago. I do not like
morals in poems even if they sparkle, but why his own students?

Why not his colleagues? India is advancing. Writers live together
in communities again. There are poetry workshops, understanding
if one does not marry. Nakulan remained faithful to the memory

of Sushila, we all still have his Sushila poems. I remember Nakulan’s
mother gifting twenty rupees at my wedding, and how I surreptitiously
bought a packet of Dunhill cigarettes with extremely long filters.

*****

If you don't like this Siva, just say and I will immediately remove.

best wishes

Ieuan

Bernie01
Posts: 777
Joined: 30 Jul 2015, 11:14

Re: My Friend’s Father

#3 Post by Bernie01 » 09 Oct 2017, 06:40

Siva---

you seem determined to confuse both your self and me.

why not talk to me without the diversions?


I went to Nakulan’s house to chew the cud of poetry.
and to ask about the ugly rumor that his fellow poet,
Dr. Carey was pushed out.

He was gay, they said, boy students shook underneath
their pants. How the shadows would leap on walls,
how he ate them up like ‘the bad wolf.’

I let Nakulan talk; after all he was Carey’s colleague.

Why they made a statue of Carey and put it up
at the school entrance.

Bird droppings made pox marks and outsiders pelleted
paper arrows. his wife short of cash, God knows
what happened to the sons.


India is catching up. Slowly. Workshops, annual gay days.

Nakulan is our great Tamil poet, and my friend,
but i could not ask him if he remained a bachelor because
he too was gay.

He wrote so lustily, so sweetly about Sushila.

All this 40 years on.

I remember Nakulan’s mother who blessed me for my wedding
with twenty rupees and how I bought a packet of Dunhill cigarettes
with those extremely long filters.

I smoked several with Nakulan as we celebrated the publication
of his great book, Words To the Wind.





and this i find a disgusting sentiment. no excuse.


to take a kindly stance, but why his own students?
Why not his colleagues?


teacher / student intimacy is illegal. period. not a gay/straight issue.




your final image i love,

I remember Nakulan’s mother who blessed me for my wedding
with twenty rupees and how I bought a packet of Dunhill cigarettes
with those extremely long filters.



bernie

Nakulan fragments----

my memories die...
i must walkaway from myself.




...in the distance of time
some days become pyramids.




...a little snuff-colored puppy
with its roundish head;
see
how he wags his tail.





I believe he loved the work of Virginia Woolf. Me too.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... ration.jpg

BobBradshaw
Posts: 2683
Joined: 03 Jun 2016, 21:03

Re: My Friend’s Father

#4 Post by BobBradshaw » 09 Oct 2017, 20:55

I agree with Bernie, that your poem should speak frankly and naturally. There is good potential here...

FranktheFrank
Posts: 1983
Joined: 02 Mar 2016, 18:07
Location: Between the mountains and the sea

Re: My Friend’s Father

#5 Post by FranktheFrank » 09 Oct 2017, 23:40

I like Siva's poem, it needs work, but she is a woman
and in a different culture. I think she prefers
the veiled approach. We are Westeners
we use the 'F' word like confetti at a wedding.
India is different, women are different. I think
she had courage to write this so long ago.

FranktheFrank
Posts: 1983
Joined: 02 Mar 2016, 18:07
Location: Between the mountains and the sea

Re: My Friend’s Father

#6 Post by FranktheFrank » 12 Oct 2017, 00:47

I suppose you might have missed this thread Siva.

SivaVelliangiri
Posts: 140
Joined: 09 Jul 2017, 06:34

Re: My Friend’s Father

#7 Post by SivaVelliangiri » 12 Oct 2017, 03:26

Thanks Frank,Bernie and Bob.I like how all of you have given your suggestions. I will work on it.
Siva

SivaVelliangiri
Posts: 140
Joined: 09 Jul 2017, 06:34

Re: My Friend’s Father

#8 Post by SivaVelliangiri » 12 Oct 2017, 19:42

Thank you Frank for unearthing this poem. Bernie's editing is less wordy and it works. Though I did not get that about student and professor as opposed to professor and colleague.

S

FranktheFrank
Posts: 1983
Joined: 02 Mar 2016, 18:07
Location: Between the mountains and the sea

Re: My Friend’s Father

#9 Post by FranktheFrank » 12 Oct 2017, 20:07

B. thinks the prof was seducing his students.

I think your shaking in their trousers led him astray.

Yes B. is much better at poetry than me.

Thank you.

SivaVelliangiri
Posts: 140
Joined: 09 Jul 2017, 06:34

Re: My Friend’s Father

#10 Post by SivaVelliangiri » 12 Oct 2017, 20:15

My Friend’s Father

I went to Nakulan’s house to chew the cud of poetry
and to ask about the ugly rumor that his fellow poet,
Dr. Carey was pushed out.

He was gay, they said, boy students shook underneath
their pants. How the shadows would leap on walls,
how he ate them up like ‘the bad wolf.’

I let Nakulan talk; after all he was Carey’s colleague.
Why they made a statue of Carey and put it up
at the entrance of Mar Ivanious no one knows.

Bird droppings made pox marks and outsiders pelleted
paper arrows; his wife wrote a novel ‘The Salt Doll’
and knocked at publishers.

Nakulan is our great Tamil poet and my mentor
but I knew he wrote love poems to one Sushila;
what I do not know is if Sushila lived only in his imagination.

He wrote so lustily, so sweetly about Sushila.
All this 40 years on. Who has read his Sushila poems?

I remember Nakulan’s mother who blessed me for my wedding
with twenty rupees and how I bought a packet of Dunhill cigarettes
with those extremely long filters.

SivaVelliangiri
Posts: 140
Joined: 09 Jul 2017, 06:34

Re: My Friend’s Father

#11 Post by SivaVelliangiri » 12 Oct 2017, 20:40

Frank
It is not that. B has read this poem earlier and he knows about this poem because I had posted it in another forum.

S

FranktheFrank
Posts: 1983
Joined: 02 Mar 2016, 18:07
Location: Between the mountains and the sea

Re: My Friend’s Father

#12 Post by FranktheFrank » 12 Oct 2017, 22:02

I preferred the original poem, it just needed clarity and tidying up.

SivaVelliangiri
Posts: 140
Joined: 09 Jul 2017, 06:34

Re: My Friend’s Father

#13 Post by SivaVelliangiri » 12 Oct 2017, 22:20

Frank

I will go to it again in broad daylight.

S

Bernie01
Posts: 777
Joined: 30 Jul 2015, 11:14

Re: My Friend’s Father

#14 Post by Bernie01 » 13 Oct 2017, 01:10

Siva---

what does this refer to:

All this happened forty years ago.
I do not like morals in poems
even if they sparkle and forty years is enough
to take a kindly stance, but why his own students?
Why not his colleagues?


bernie

SivaVelliangiri
Posts: 140
Joined: 09 Jul 2017, 06:34

Re: My Friend’s Father

#15 Post by SivaVelliangiri » 13 Oct 2017, 11:08

Bernie
I wrote this in 77 and when some'gay' topic came up I posted it.I met the poet Hoshang Merchant at the Prakriti Poetry Festival twelve years ago and have hence changed my views.I am not able to edit in this forum, I wonder why. I posted this poem as Siva Ramanathan and now I use the id SivaVelliangiri because I had forgotten my password.
Please watch
https://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&rct=j ... 9_yx7FEFLC
S

FranktheFrank
Posts: 1983
Joined: 02 Mar 2016, 18:07
Location: Between the mountains and the sea

Re: My Friend’s Father

#16 Post by FranktheFrank » 13 Oct 2017, 13:22

Siva
Simply start a new thread and edit it as new,
that's the way to go.

regards

Frank

Bernie01
Posts: 777
Joined: 30 Jul 2015, 11:14

Re: My Friend’s Father

#17 Post by Bernie01 » 15 Oct 2017, 05:36

Siva---


I've never seen this poem before.

when you posted this poem a few days ago you could have typed it without the offending, homophobic
line I highlighted.

---do you understand why i find your line homophobic?

you and M are my window into Indian culture and I trust your personal judgment and opinions.


bernie

FranktheFrank
Posts: 1983
Joined: 02 Mar 2016, 18:07
Location: Between the mountains and the sea

Re: My Friend’s Father

#18 Post by FranktheFrank » 15 Oct 2017, 15:44

I must iterate,
this poem has the bones of a good poem.
I saw nothing homophobic in the poem. I saw a distaste that some
so called great professor had engaged in sin and without knowing
their history I was satisfied with the account of the transgression,
it could have been the common lust for students or wives. I saw
a rather refined distaste from N about the sin and a concern for the
people affected by it. Any reference details were refined and veiled, etc. etc.
My comments are not designed to take away other critiques rights to
verse their opinions, I simply give mine as I see it.
I was surprised when checking the historical basis to find it real
to see India's heroes mentioned as ordinary people by our poet Siva
as if they visited her in the garden and living room and that she had
conversed and immersed herself in their conversations, I must say
I found that quite fascinating. bu strange that Siva spelled Mars'
name wrong.
I laid the poem our in regular stanzas, to give Siva an idea of form,
and it needed attention, but the second version takes away something
from the poem. Like Osel often says the original is always the best,
with the caveat to tinker just a little.

I do think these lines could be dispensed with:

'All this happened forty years ago.
I do not like morals in poems'

SivaVelliangiri
Posts: 140
Joined: 09 Jul 2017, 06:34

Re: My Friend’s Father

#19 Post by SivaVelliangiri » 15 Oct 2017, 22:36

Frank and Bernie

Thank you for your comments.I will read in the morning and come back.

Siva

FranktheFrank
Posts: 1983
Joined: 02 Mar 2016, 18:07
Location: Between the mountains and the sea

Re: My Friend’s Father

#20 Post by FranktheFrank » 17 Oct 2017, 01:02

Siva
Suggestion:

Cut the original poem out and paste into a new thread with your new name.

Then redo the poem, work on it for form
then change, tinker gently, don't be savage.
Stick to you original intent, never mind your changed views
they were honestly held views then
don't cater for politically correct, contrary views are valid.

I have nominated this poem for this month,
make us proud.

SivaVelliangiri
Posts: 140
Joined: 09 Jul 2017, 06:34

Re: My Friend’s Father

#21 Post by SivaVelliangiri » 19 Oct 2017, 23:16

My Friend’s Father;

Whenever I went to Nakulan’s house
to chew the cud of poetry
we sometimes talked about Ivanious.


the university where he taught literature
before retiring, before the rumour

of Professor Carey pushed itself ugly with ash
like the snake pill tablet when lit.

How the boy students shook underneath their pants
in simple fright. How the shadows would leap

on the walls, how he ate them up like the bad wolf.
I let Nakulan talk; after all it he was a colleague.
Mrs. Carey knocked at publishers with her autobiography
‘The Iodine Puppet’ but it was not enough to feed her children.

Mrs. Carey taught in All Saints’, a women’s college.
I merely listened to that and about Panicker’s wife turning mad

thinking Nakulan was hallucinating. When Christobel
started her wheeze I thought the truth was spreading

and willed Cristobel to talk it out. Christobel
went into parables of sin. Why they made a statue of Carey

and put it up at the entrance is still a mystery.
After his death bird droppings make pox marks
and outsiders pelleted paper arrows.

Christobel died leaving her kids and Gods know what happened
to Carey’s sons. All this happened forty years ago.

I do not like morals in poems
even if they sparkle and forty years is enough

to take a kindly stance, but why his own students?
Why not his colleagues?

India it is catching up. Writers living together, not that it did not exist.
There are workshops, Gay days once in a year, and parental understanding too
if you do not choose to get married.

As for Nakulan he remained a bachelor, lusting after his Sushila
for we have all those Sushila poems. I remember
Nakulan’s mother who blessed me for my wedding with twenty rupees

and how I bought a packet of Dunhill cigarettes with those extremely long filters.

Kenneth2816
Posts: 1619
Joined: 01 Jun 2008, 09:17

Re: My Friend’s Father

#22 Post by Kenneth2816 » 23 Oct 2017, 05:03

nom this poem for IBPC as well.

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