Cremation Is Not Merely Setting Fire
I forgot to put on a sad face
in between inanities and the mundane.
You had bared your chest beating it with fists
you shrieked when they lifted the body
your cry rent the air, I just kept on
looking at you.
Nudged our son to go have a look
how they had smeared with : sandal paste
sacred ash, turmeric and salt,
covered the body with dried dung
made holes in three places to release the pressure
that builds up when set fire to
that the head does not explode.
Came back and told me, ‘cremation
is not merely setting fire, Amma.'
At dawn we women walked to the ground
the heart, they said, was not well cooked
so we left to return to pick up a few choice
bones in a mud pot, later.
At Bhavani where the three tributaries of the Kaveri meet
we immersed the bones and ash. Something kept
nudging me to think if my sister-in-law
would feel the same when they had to deal with me.
When the body burns the rib cage will sit up
the crematorium guard will put it in its place
with a blow dealt with from his much used
bamboo staff for courage to ward off Mayanam spirits.
I forgot to put on a sad face
in between inanities and the mundane.
You had bared your chest beating it with fists
you shrieked when they lifted the body
your cry rent the air, I just kept on
looking at you.
Nudged our son to go have a look
how they had embalmed with sandal paste
sacred ash, turmeric and salt,
covered the body with dried dung
made holes in three places to set fire.
Came back and told me, ‘cremation
is not merely setting fire, Amma.'
At dawn we women walked to the ground
the heart, they said, was not well cooked
so we left to return to pick up a few choice
bones in a mud pot, later.
At Bhavani where the three tributaries of the Kaveri meet
we immersed the bones and ash. Something kept
nudging me to think if my sister-in-law
would feel the same when they had to deal with my body.
When the body burns the rib cage will sit up
the crematorium guard will put it in its place
with a blow dealt with from his much used
walking stick.
Bernie
You made this poem what it is.I had written ,'Last Rites Something'. You worked on it in another forum.
My daughter sent me the link and asked me to enter the competition.As usual I told her I am beyond the competition stage(age) and she said if you do not have any new poem at least send an old poem.I feel happy for choosing this poem because all competitions are a lottery. I have met Patience Agbadi and I sort of knew that the word,'Amma' would appeal to her.All that I wanted is for her to read my poem. Anyone who can google will know about the South Indian rivers.
After purchasing my entry,I quickly posted the poem without realizing that I had an edited version.
"Embalmed' is wrong word choice.We are not Egyptian mummies.'Smeared' would have been right.And not 'walking stick.' More appropriate would have been ' bamboo staff', because a walking stick is not taller than a man's outstretched arm and the crematorium guard has to carry a staff to ward off night spirits,at least for moral courage.
Siva
Cremation Is Not Merely Setting Fire
-
FranktheFrank
- Posts: 1987
- Joined: 02 Mar 2016, 18:07
- Location: Between the mountains and the sea
Re: Cremation Is Not Merely Setting Fire
This is the poem I was speaking about, it is very good.
You are analytical with your own work, very good, keep that up
we cannot rely on our workshopping alone, we all must work at revision.
Your explanation to Bernie is good, you are thinking through,
parts of your explanation must be incorporated int the poem,
'the crematorium guard has to carry a staff
to ward off night spirits, at least for moral courage.'
The crematorium guard carries a bamboo staff to ward of spirits
and to keep up his courage - suggestion]
This should be part of the poem, informative, interesting.
I wonder if this should be sandal[wood] paste.
'how they had embalmed [coated the body?] with[:] sandal paste
[add colon for grammar, start of a list]
sacred ash, turmeric and salt,
covered the body with dried dung
made holes in three places to set fire.'
[this last line could be changed because the holes are not there for fire,
they are there to release the pressure that builds up when set fire to so
that the head does not explode and so on. How you word it is up to you.]
'the heart, they said, was not well cooked'
Not the right choice of word here, cooked points to eating, I am sure
you don't eat your bodies, although I have seen a film where a Sadhu eats
grandmother's leg.
Maybe: The heart had not been properly consumed by the fire, they had said.
'would feel the same when they had to deal with my body.'
This line is laborious, maybe:
would feel the same way if dealing with my body
or
would feel the same when dealing with me [or my body.]
I know you prefer Michael's fine critiques Siva, hope this helps.
This is a fine poem and deserves a little of your attention.
I would like to see it go through to the IBPC at some time.
You are analytical with your own work, very good, keep that up
we cannot rely on our workshopping alone, we all must work at revision.
Your explanation to Bernie is good, you are thinking through,
parts of your explanation must be incorporated int the poem,
'the crematorium guard has to carry a staff
to ward off night spirits, at least for moral courage.'
The crematorium guard carries a bamboo staff to ward of spirits
and to keep up his courage - suggestion]
This should be part of the poem, informative, interesting.
I wonder if this should be sandal[wood] paste.
'how they had embalmed [coated the body?] with[:] sandal paste
[add colon for grammar, start of a list]
sacred ash, turmeric and salt,
covered the body with dried dung
made holes in three places to set fire.'
[this last line could be changed because the holes are not there for fire,
they are there to release the pressure that builds up when set fire to so
that the head does not explode and so on. How you word it is up to you.]
'the heart, they said, was not well cooked'
Not the right choice of word here, cooked points to eating, I am sure
you don't eat your bodies, although I have seen a film where a Sadhu eats
grandmother's leg.
Maybe: The heart had not been properly consumed by the fire, they had said.
'would feel the same when they had to deal with my body.'
This line is laborious, maybe:
would feel the same way if dealing with my body
or
would feel the same when dealing with me [or my body.]
I know you prefer Michael's fine critiques Siva, hope this helps.
This is a fine poem and deserves a little of your attention.
I would like to see it go through to the IBPC at some time.
-
SivaRamanathan
- Posts: 1168
- Joined: 14 May 2011, 20:30
Re: Cremation Is Not Merely Setting Fire
Frank,
Much appreciated.Honestly I do not have the energy to reply to you now, but will do so in the morning.
In short I will change everything to what you say but retain the 'cooked'. That Indians can talk so matter-of-factly about life and death is what this poem is about. My father used to say, soul -coat, body -- coathanger.
Thank you
Siva
Much appreciated.Honestly I do not have the energy to reply to you now, but will do so in the morning.
In short I will change everything to what you say but retain the 'cooked'. That Indians can talk so matter-of-factly about life and death is what this poem is about. My father used to say, soul -coat, body -- coathanger.
Thank you
Siva
-
FranktheFrank
- Posts: 1987
- Joined: 02 Mar 2016, 18:07
- Location: Between the mountains and the sea
Re: Cremation Is Not Merely Setting Fire
Another word for coating the body could be
to preserve the body
or
you could leave off explaining altogether just list the ash and so on,
we know what they do, preserve, stop the body smelling.
The cow waste is considered holy, most Europeans would know that,
your choice as always.
This is a very good poem, your changes should be minimal
and considered very carefully before changing.
I won't argue with you about cooked, it is your poem,
but cooking is to do with food, and burning is to do with
ridding of waste
cremation is to burn the body so it does not offend
or for some religious reason about reincarnation, I am not sure.
Your choice.
In my opinion you could easily have been placed with this gem
it's just those little words that are so important.
Ovoid to much telling,
when you rewrite the bamboo staff try and make it by showing.
'Moral courage' is a tautology, showing something in two way, courage would do.
I's like saying, he is a clever genius, when we know a genius is the top 1%
i.e. he has to be clever to be a genius. A Tautology. You can use them if important
but use sparingly.
Don't rush, you have a lot of time to make this perfect.
to preserve the body
or
you could leave off explaining altogether just list the ash and so on,
we know what they do, preserve, stop the body smelling.
The cow waste is considered holy, most Europeans would know that,
your choice as always.
This is a very good poem, your changes should be minimal
and considered very carefully before changing.
I won't argue with you about cooked, it is your poem,
but cooking is to do with food, and burning is to do with
ridding of waste
cremation is to burn the body so it does not offend
or for some religious reason about reincarnation, I am not sure.
Your choice.
In my opinion you could easily have been placed with this gem
it's just those little words that are so important.
Ovoid to much telling,
when you rewrite the bamboo staff try and make it by showing.
'Moral courage' is a tautology, showing something in two way, courage would do.
I's like saying, he is a clever genius, when we know a genius is the top 1%
i.e. he has to be clever to be a genius. A Tautology. You can use them if important
but use sparingly.
Don't rush, you have a lot of time to make this perfect.
-
SivaRamanathan
- Posts: 1168
- Joined: 14 May 2011, 20:30
Re: Cremation Is Not Merely Setting Fire
Frank
Did you read my edited version. The line before the head exploding sounds prosy.
Siva
Did you read my edited version. The line before the head exploding sounds prosy.
Siva
-
FranktheFrank
- Posts: 1987
- Joined: 02 Mar 2016, 18:07
- Location: Between the mountains and the sea
Re: Cremation Is Not Merely Setting Fire
Yes, read it.
Yes it is prosy, you the poet have to figure out how to tell
if you decide to leave it in. I was explaining to you why they
make the holes, that you ave added is up to you. It could
work and it is instructive and interesting to the reader.
Generally readers crave any information of a different culture
for instance the body sitting up is fascinating. That is the strength
of your poetry, Meena's too.
Like Meena and myself you rush your edits and then make
mistakes over punctuation, it's a discipline that come s slowly
you have to get it right, it weakens the poem. Get into the habit
of reading every line carefully after an edit, checking spaces
after commas, spaces before colons, incomplete speech literals.
I am the worst offender of my own rules, it takes time.
The bamboo staff is much better.
I can't force you to do anything with your own poem,
but cooking the heart is not right.
Suggestions:
the fire had not reached the heart
reduced the heart
burnt the heart fully
the heart was still intact
had not reduced to ash.
Check English usage, what does it say about cooking.
If you don't have a book on English usage please buy one,
it is a tremendous help even for mother English speakers.
Choose to follow British or American English, but keep your
own patois intact, so important. Say things the way you
would in your village, if the poem is about town then use
the English they would use. I have to temper what we say in
Wales as it will confuse the English English speakers.
My suggestions are frameworks for you to think or move around
This one needs attention:
This is the poem I was speaking about, it is very good.
You are analytical with your own work, very good, keep that up
we cannot rely on our workshopping alone, we all must work at revision.
Your explanation to Bernie is good, you are thinking through,
parts of your explanation must be incorporated int the poem,
'the crematorium guard has to carry a staff
to ward off night spirits, at least for moral courage.'
'The crematorium guard carries a bamboo staff to ward of spirits
and to keep up his courage - suggestion]'
The crematorium guard grabs his bamboo staff
his instrument of office, was it an owl
or a Mayanam spirit.
Don't use my version, but think about it, tell it in your own way
These fine adjustments are like the gilding on a temple
they make al the difference, same with punctuation -
gilding to the lily.
S1 is good I am not keen on L2
This is the poem I was speaking about, it is very good.
You are analytical with your own work, very good, keep that up
we cannot rely on our workshopping alone, we all must work at revision.
Your explanation to Bernie is good, you are thinking through,
parts of your explanation must be incorporated int the poem,
'the crematorium guard has to carry a staff
to ward off night spirits, at least for moral courage.'
S1 is good, L2 is problematic for me
inanities does not sound right, choose another word
or write a paragraph explaining what you mean by L2
Don't change anything without doing several drafts,
always keep your original as you develop. I think
approach a poem every much as I do, we all have
different ways of working.
S2 is very (VERY) good,
'my son' maybe rather than 'our son'.
But if you are cremating your late husband then 'our' is correct
in which case you are addressing the departed.
I have already discussed the last three lines.
S3 likewise - very good. It is a stroke of genius
that you bring in your son, the demise of an aged relative
and the new generation. He also speak as a child would
he speaks with insight. capital letter for when speech
starts within literals. No space before a colon.
This part is problematic:
'the heart, they said, was not well cooked
so we left to return to pick up a few choice
bones in a mud pot, later.'
It may be your little joke, but cooked, bones and pot
all add up to eating, The reader may get confused
and he is expecting a serious poem about cremation.
It may be worthwhile stating the obvious, but maybe it is
important to explicate the body is coated with [cow] dung, but
it isn't necessary to explain everything, that cow dung is
considered holy.
S4 is excellent, something Bernie would do
a switch in tone and scene, it is interesting
informative to your readers.
S5 is excellent writing again informative.
When the body burns the rib cage will sit up
[you may wish to say:
At some point in the process of burning
the body will sit up, the crematorium guard
will use his bamboo staff to strike
and to put it back in its place.]
the crematorium guard will put it in its place
with a blow dealt with from his much used
walking stick.
You have now lots of work to do to refine
and make it uniquely yours.
What makes the poem good is that you don't over tell
there is a progression, you don't over emphasise
what must be an extremely moving experience
you introduce your son and he speaks words
of wisdom that children often do.
The striking by the guard completes the scene
the final blow, life has departed, the ashes taken
to the river all wrapped up in a faith system.
Take your time, think carefully.
Yes it is prosy, you the poet have to figure out how to tell
if you decide to leave it in. I was explaining to you why they
make the holes, that you ave added is up to you. It could
work and it is instructive and interesting to the reader.
Generally readers crave any information of a different culture
for instance the body sitting up is fascinating. That is the strength
of your poetry, Meena's too.
Like Meena and myself you rush your edits and then make
mistakes over punctuation, it's a discipline that come s slowly
you have to get it right, it weakens the poem. Get into the habit
of reading every line carefully after an edit, checking spaces
after commas, spaces before colons, incomplete speech literals.
I am the worst offender of my own rules, it takes time.
The bamboo staff is much better.
I can't force you to do anything with your own poem,
but cooking the heart is not right.
Suggestions:
the fire had not reached the heart
reduced the heart
burnt the heart fully
the heart was still intact
had not reduced to ash.
Check English usage, what does it say about cooking.
If you don't have a book on English usage please buy one,
it is a tremendous help even for mother English speakers.
Choose to follow British or American English, but keep your
own patois intact, so important. Say things the way you
would in your village, if the poem is about town then use
the English they would use. I have to temper what we say in
Wales as it will confuse the English English speakers.
My suggestions are frameworks for you to think or move around
This one needs attention:
This is the poem I was speaking about, it is very good.
You are analytical with your own work, very good, keep that up
we cannot rely on our workshopping alone, we all must work at revision.
Your explanation to Bernie is good, you are thinking through,
parts of your explanation must be incorporated int the poem,
'the crematorium guard has to carry a staff
to ward off night spirits, at least for moral courage.'
'The crematorium guard carries a bamboo staff to ward of spirits
and to keep up his courage - suggestion]'
The crematorium guard grabs his bamboo staff
his instrument of office, was it an owl
or a Mayanam spirit.
Don't use my version, but think about it, tell it in your own way
These fine adjustments are like the gilding on a temple
they make al the difference, same with punctuation -
gilding to the lily.
S1 is good I am not keen on L2
This is the poem I was speaking about, it is very good.
You are analytical with your own work, very good, keep that up
we cannot rely on our workshopping alone, we all must work at revision.
Your explanation to Bernie is good, you are thinking through,
parts of your explanation must be incorporated int the poem,
'the crematorium guard has to carry a staff
to ward off night spirits, at least for moral courage.'
S1 is good, L2 is problematic for me
inanities does not sound right, choose another word
or write a paragraph explaining what you mean by L2
Don't change anything without doing several drafts,
always keep your original as you develop. I think
approach a poem every much as I do, we all have
different ways of working.
S2 is very (VERY) good,
'my son' maybe rather than 'our son'.
But if you are cremating your late husband then 'our' is correct
in which case you are addressing the departed.
I have already discussed the last three lines.
S3 likewise - very good. It is a stroke of genius
that you bring in your son, the demise of an aged relative
and the new generation. He also speak as a child would
he speaks with insight. capital letter for when speech
starts within literals. No space before a colon.
This part is problematic:
'the heart, they said, was not well cooked
so we left to return to pick up a few choice
bones in a mud pot, later.'
It may be your little joke, but cooked, bones and pot
all add up to eating, The reader may get confused
and he is expecting a serious poem about cremation.
It may be worthwhile stating the obvious, but maybe it is
important to explicate the body is coated with [cow] dung, but
it isn't necessary to explain everything, that cow dung is
considered holy.
S4 is excellent, something Bernie would do
a switch in tone and scene, it is interesting
informative to your readers.
S5 is excellent writing again informative.
When the body burns the rib cage will sit up
[you may wish to say:
At some point in the process of burning
the body will sit up, the crematorium guard
will use his bamboo staff to strike
and to put it back in its place.]
the crematorium guard will put it in its place
with a blow dealt with from his much used
walking stick.
You have now lots of work to do to refine
and make it uniquely yours.
What makes the poem good is that you don't over tell
there is a progression, you don't over emphasise
what must be an extremely moving experience
you introduce your son and he speaks words
of wisdom that children often do.
The striking by the guard completes the scene
the final blow, life has departed, the ashes taken
to the river all wrapped up in a faith system.
Take your time, think carefully.
-
SivaRamanathan
- Posts: 1168
- Joined: 14 May 2011, 20:30
Re: Cremation Is Not Merely Setting Fire
Frank
This is too much for me.I have to read it in small doses.
I want to thank you.
Siva
This is too much for me.I have to read it in small doses.
I want to thank you.
Siva
Re: Cremation Is Not Merely Setting Fire
Siva, good poetry pal....
liked the poem setup here, striking and so original. you will make a high impact and striking poem unforgetable, a devastating poem that opens so much to me not imagined before.
bernie
liked the poem setup here, striking and so original. you will make a high impact and striking poem unforgetable, a devastating poem that opens so much to me not imagined before.
bernie
-
Michael (MV)
- Posts: 2154
- Joined: 18 Apr 2005, 04:57
Re: Cremation Is Not Merely Setting Fire
Siva,
If you don't already have a poem committed to represent another board for this upcoming December IBPC,
then I hope you'll consider allowing, Cremation Is Not Merely Setting Fire, to represent for the Writer's Block
Please reply - accept or decline - in the thread at Palaver Upcoming December IBPC 2016:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6409#p27804
If accepting, please provide all the needed info, as usual: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6409
Thanks, Siva
Michael (MV)
If you don't already have a poem committed to represent another board for this upcoming December IBPC,
then I hope you'll consider allowing, Cremation Is Not Merely Setting Fire, to represent for the Writer's Block
Please reply - accept or decline - in the thread at Palaver Upcoming December IBPC 2016:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6409#p27804
If accepting, please provide all the needed info, as usual: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6409
Thanks, Siva
Michael (MV)
-
SivaRamanathan
- Posts: 1168
- Joined: 14 May 2011, 20:30
Re: Cremation Is Not Merely Setting Fire
Michael
If it is still open,I will work on the poem tomorrow and send it before midnight. Sorry, I was at another group,and we have the two week long Poetry Festival in Chennai.
S
If it is still open,I will work on the poem tomorrow and send it before midnight. Sorry, I was at another group,and we have the two week long Poetry Festival in Chennai.
S
-
FranktheFrank
- Posts: 1987
- Joined: 02 Mar 2016, 18:07
- Location: Between the mountains and the sea
Re: Cremation Is Not Merely Setting Fire
The problem is always at the end of the month
and this is because we are not workshopping as a group
as a forum should be. The poems have to be rigorously
edited long before the end of the month so that Michael
has very little to do when getting ready to pass onto the
competition judges. Michael did ask last month that we
workshop properly. It's unfair on him to leave things to
the last minute. I can only help people if they want help,
if I feel my assistance is unwanted there is nowhere for
me to go. This can be a great poem, but it needs work.
and this is because we are not workshopping as a group
as a forum should be. The poems have to be rigorously
edited long before the end of the month so that Michael
has very little to do when getting ready to pass onto the
competition judges. Michael did ask last month that we
workshop properly. It's unfair on him to leave things to
the last minute. I can only help people if they want help,
if I feel my assistance is unwanted there is nowhere for
me to go. This can be a great poem, but it needs work.
-
SivaRamanathan
- Posts: 1168
- Joined: 14 May 2011, 20:30
Re: Cremation Is Not Merely Setting Fire
Frank
I am really sorry.I totally agree with you. I apologize, and promise to be in the group. This time we have to let it go,if Michael accepts.
Thank you
Siva
I am really sorry.I totally agree with you. I apologize, and promise to be in the group. This time we have to let it go,if Michael accepts.
Thank you
Siva
-
SivaRamanathan01
- Posts: 5
- Joined: 06 Dec 2016, 18:12
Re: Cremation Is Not Merely Setting Fire
Michael
Sorry for this slip-shod posting,I have not been able to log in. Amma,Bhavani and Mayanam should be italicised.
Sorry for this slip-shod posting,I have not been able to log in. Amma,Bhavani and Mayanam should be italicised.