Unforgettable......title change from.... What she Might Say

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LindaLinda
Posts: 68
Joined: 08 Oct 2017, 05:13

Unforgettable......title change from.... What she Might Say

#1 Post by LindaLinda » 14 Oct 2017, 00:06

I was nothing much really
just a sweet young thing
who emerged from a storm,
feral and frayed.

Born--not of the elite,
no Miss Porters Boarding School
or formal debutante debut.

Do you remember my cornflower eyes,
silk platinum waves, red sweetheart lips,
the movement of my hips
or the sound of my voice?

Soft breathless purrs above a whisper.
Expressions, inflections purely feminine.

Marilyn was my creation,
a suggestive elicitation for love
at a time I knew the least about myself,
where to feel free was to
lift my shoulders and pout,
take comfort with a man intertwined.

I will never forget that glorious first sight,
my name glittering in lights,
the way Hollywood polished me
to an effusion of sexuality,
set me out like a voluptuous feast served warm--

don't get me wrong,
I yearned to fly on tinseled wings,
adored my flashbulb life,
the scent of Channel #5 in my mink
but most of all, I loved the crowds
that lined the streets to catch a glimpse of me.

Remember Jacks birthday bash, when I slinked onto the stage,
shimmering like an ethereal queen--my last appearence
before I disappeared.

You see,
I was the first blossom in a sexually repressed field,
who wanted to belong to everyone because
I had never belonged to anyone.

My death was not intentional, it was inevitable.

I have no regrets--
they buried me in my favorite Pucci dress.
I loved the roses Joe sent for all those years.

I am happy, content and do not long for love,
I just draw it in--has the scent of hyacinth
and it never left me.

Kenneth2816
Posts: 1619
Joined: 01 Jun 2008, 09:17

Re: What She Might Say if the Dead Could Speak

#2 Post by Kenneth2816 » 14 Oct 2017, 12:14

Linda. Glad you didn't give it all away with a title. I like not knowing until later Who is speaking .There is depth here. Giving voice to one of the world's most iconic and tragic figures is no easy task


There is a lot of wisdom and insight in this, Linda. I have nothing to suggest.

I'd send it out .

capricorn
Posts: 382
Joined: 21 Sep 2017, 23:23

Re: What She Might Say if the Dead Could Speak

#3 Post by capricorn » 14 Oct 2017, 17:32

Yes, I'm glad you didn't give it away too soon as well. you have some wonderful descriptions here Linda. Here are just a few I like.

Do you remember my cornflower eyes,
silk platinum waves, red sweetheart lips,
the movement of my hips?

Do you recall the sound of my voice?
Soft breathless purrs above a whisper (Full stop after whisper?)
Expressions, inflections purely feminine.


Definitely send it out - it's very original.

Eira

Kenneth2816
Posts: 1619
Joined: 01 Jun 2008, 09:17

Re: What She Might Say if the Dead Could Speak

#4 Post by Kenneth2816 » 14 Oct 2017, 21:17

I'd like to nominate this for IBPC

LindaLinda
Posts: 68
Joined: 08 Oct 2017, 05:13

Re: What She Might Say if the Dead Could Speak

#5 Post by LindaLinda » 15 Oct 2017, 02:06

Thank you Kenneth, I guess all the research I did on her was worth it. I just had a soft spot in my heart for her and felt bad
about her life and how Hollywood was probably the last thing she needed.


You said, send it out? I wouldn't know where to send it.
Best,
Linda

FranktheFrank
Posts: 1983
Joined: 02 Mar 2016, 18:07
Location: Between the mountains and the sea

Re: What She Might Say if the Dead Could Speak

#6 Post by FranktheFrank » 15 Oct 2017, 02:25

Go to palaver Linda, and start a thread and say I accept Ken's nomination fo r my poem, give name of poem. end of story.

Writer's Block > Palaver> open new topic> post your message>save>exit.

Best wishes

LindaLinda
Posts: 68
Joined: 08 Oct 2017, 05:13

Re: What She Might Say if the Dead Could Speak

#7 Post by LindaLinda » 15 Oct 2017, 02:35

Thanks Frank

LindaLinda
Posts: 68
Joined: 08 Oct 2017, 05:13

Re: What She Might Say if the Dead Could Speak

#8 Post by LindaLinda » 15 Oct 2017, 04:39

thanks Eira,
glad you liked it.

Michael (MV)
Posts: 2154
Joined: 18 Apr 2005, 04:57

Re: What She Might Say if the Dead Could Speak

#9 Post by Michael (MV) » 26 Oct 2017, 09:10

 
Hi Linda,

Yes, in accord - strategic that the title doesn't initially i.d. the speaker

That said, however even then, the current title doesn't do justice to the text - it's too wordy, like the title of an essay - and as the poem testifies, Marilyn died, but is not dead - Elton John's lyric speaks to that

maybe title short, sweet, simply as: She Speaks   or   She Speaks Easy


stanza 1 - typo "form" should be "from"

I was nothing much really
just a sweet young thing
who emerged from a storm,
feral and frayed.

^^ I like how I read / how I pick up on in this stanza an unpretentious (maybe even unintended by the writer) allusion to the myth of Aphrodite on the half-shell (The Birth of Venus )

The rest of the text, below, workshop illustrated for your oerusal & consideration. Please not the punctuation & grammar & spelling correction. I like that the last stanza shifts up to the present tense.
It's not afterlife. It's life here after forevermore   8)   Michael (MV)


Not of the elite,
no Miss Porters Boarding School
or formal debutante debut.

Yet you remember my cornflower eyes,
silk platinum waves, red sweetheart lips,
the movement of my hips?

And you recall the sound of my voice?
Soft breathless purrs above a whisper.
Expressions with ultra-feminine make-up.

Marilyn was my creation,
a suggestive elicitation for love
at a time I knew the least about myself,
where to feel free was to
lift my shoulders and pout,
take comfort with a man intertwined.

I will never forget that glorious first sight,
my name glittering in marquee,
the way Hollywood polished me
to an effusion of sexuality,
set me out like a voluptuous feast
served warm, and to be polished off.

Don't get me wrong,
I yearned to fly on tinseled wings,
adored my flashbulb life,
the scent of Channel #5 in my mink
but most of all, I loved the crowds
that lined the streets to catch a glimpse of me.

Remember Jack's birthday bash,
when I slinked onto the stage
for my last appearance
shimmering like an ethereal queen--

You see, I was
the first blossom in a repressed field,
who wanted to belong to everyone, because
I had never belonged to anyone.

My dying scene was not in a script, it was inevitable.

I have no regrets--
buried in my favorite Pucci dress
and I loved the roses Joe sent for all those years.

I am happy, content and no longer long for love,
I just draw it in -- the scent of hyacinth
that has never left me.


 
 
 
 
 

LindaLinda
Posts: 68
Joined: 08 Oct 2017, 05:13

Re: What She Might Say if the Dead Could Speak

#10 Post by LindaLinda » 26 Oct 2017, 17:05

thanks for the catch in the first S, and your suggestions, I removed one of the...do you recall..in S3, the original title was Unforgettable, I am thinking of changing it back.
Appreciate the imput
Linda

BobBradshaw
Posts: 2683
Joined: 03 Jun 2016, 21:03

Re: What She Might Say if the Dead Could Speak

#11 Post by BobBradshaw » 26 Oct 2017, 23:03

I like the poem, but there are too many cliches...obviously you meant to pile them on in the beginning, but fewer would work better and get us more quickly into the heart of the poem..."Marilyn was my creation..."

LindaLinda
Posts: 68
Joined: 08 Oct 2017, 05:13

Re: What She Might Say if the Dead Could Speak

#12 Post by LindaLinda » 27 Oct 2017, 00:08

Thanks Bob,
I didn't realize there were any. Except for Tinseled wings, which I felt completed the phrase perfectly so I left it in,
Best,
Linda

BobBradshaw
Posts: 2683
Joined: 03 Jun 2016, 21:03

Re: What She Might Say if the Dead Could Speak

#13 Post by BobBradshaw » 27 Oct 2017, 21:37

Cornflower eyes is one...but not a big deal. I suggest you cut the following line...it's rather flat. But otherwise I like the poem...bob

Expressions, inflections purely feminine

LindaLinda
Posts: 68
Joined: 08 Oct 2017, 05:13

Re: Unforgettable......title change from.... What she Might

#14 Post by LindaLinda » 28 Oct 2017, 01:33

thanks bob any suggestions for Cornflower eyes? , I'm thinking on the other line
Best, Liinda

Kenneth2816
Posts: 1619
Joined: 01 Jun 2008, 09:17

Re: Unforgettable......title change from.... What she Might

#15 Post by Kenneth2816 » 28 Oct 2017, 03:42

Good title. Marilyn herself was a cliche

Bernie01
Posts: 777
Joined: 30 Jul 2015, 11:14

Re: Unforgettable......title change from.... What she Might

#16 Post by Bernie01 » 28 Oct 2017, 22:19

Linda---


i have avoided your poem---i so dislike the technique of quoting the dead. a liberty i don't feel most of us have earned. for a journalist like me, a quote is almost sacred...and for a poet?
most folks here, i see, want "poets" to have every freedom, every opportunity to express their heart and mind. yeah, i get it.

well, so much for poets, you're not a journalist, and maybe they don't care much any more either.

would the poem still interest you if i wrote these things about an anonymous actress?

maybe, maybe not.

so, having put my cards on the dresser---

the pom:



I was nothing much really
just a sweet young thing
who emerged from a storm,
feral and frayed.


can't imagine anyone saying that, certainly not Ms. Monroe.

can't imagine her beginning a bio in this formal, stiff manner:


Born--not of the elite,
no Miss Porters Boarding School
or formal debutante debut.


the poem seems to warm to the task here:

Do you remember my cornflower eyes,
silk platinum waves, red sweetheart lips,
the movement of my hips
or the sound of my voice?

Soft breathless purrs above a whisper.
Expressions, inflections purely feminine.

Marilyn was my creation,
a suggestive elicitation for love
at a time I knew the least about myself,
where to feel free was to
lift my shoulders and pout,
take comfort with a man intertwined.


"intertwined" is a word fished from suspicious depths.


Ah, here the poem finds a channel---

I will never forget that glorious first sight,
my name glittering in lights,
the way Hollywood polished me....






to an effusion of sexuality,
set me out like a voluptuous feast served warm--


the deathless prose of a potboiler.



don't get me wrong,
I yearned to fly on tinseled wings,
adored my flashbulb life,
the scent of...



me i cut these lines...and move quickly to something very strong:


Channel #5 in my mink
but most of all, I loved the crowds
that lined the streets to catch a glimpse of me.


yes, i feel insight here, just the opposite in the next verse that merely repeats tabloid headlines----



Remember Jacks birthday bash, when I slinked onto the stage,
shimmering like an ethereal queen--my last appearence
before I disappeared.




and the next lines should pass away, fast:

You see,
I was the first blossom in a sexually repressed field,
who wanted to belong to everyone because



this line, is a stand out in the poem and a winner:

I had never belonged to anyone.


the next line is questionable:


My death was not intentional, it was inevitable.


but i very much like the next sequence:
I have no regrets--
they buried me in my favorite Pucci dress.
I loved the roses Joe sent for all those years.

in those lines she is both intelligent, sensitive and vulnerable...


the final lines yield Ms. Monroe a dignity:

I am happy, content and do not long for love,
I just draw it in--has the scent of hyacinth
and it never left me.




does the poem create drama? or does Ms. Monroe?

a final note on technique:

a writer does not seem to so invade the subject's privacy when they only suggest, clearly, and quote only from a published source.

and what about hashing material known to the reader because the subject is a public personality? when does liberty become license?


I worked with a New York times reporter who told me the newspaper was a daily issued encyclopedia. failures, understood, but i was impressed by the high standard. now poets, what are our stands yup, truth is beauty and beauty truth, all we know and all we need to know. yup.


bernie


and to lighten up...Billy Collins quoting dogs:

https://www.ted.com/talks/billy_collins ... k_probably

LindaLinda
Posts: 68
Joined: 08 Oct 2017, 05:13

Re: Unforgettable......title change from.... What she Might

#17 Post by LindaLinda » 29 Oct 2017, 01:22

Thanks for looking in,
Gee Bernie, I never knew that you had to earn the right to write a Persona Poem.
My research was based on published sources.
Persona poems have been written about the dead, the famous and the mundane
without standards being compromised.
I understand that you look through the lens of a journalist,
but I do think that poetic license and journalistic license are two totally different things.
Thanks again for the detailed review.
Linda

Bernie01
Posts: 777
Joined: 30 Jul 2015, 11:14

Re: Unforgettable......title change from.... What she Might

#18 Post by Bernie01 » 31 Oct 2017, 02:42

Linda---

it isn't journalism vs. poetry---


its libel---when written. and yes, truth is a defense. and a writer gets broad tolerance if the figure is a public one.

Persona poems have been written about the dead, the famous and the mundane---yes, but not attributing constructed quotes. if quoting a public source, the source should be identified---as when we quote a poem, a passage from a novel or other sourcfe.



if i put personal and revealing comments in quotes and stuffed them them into your mouth, my poem would be a libel. How would you feel seeing yourself quoted in a poem?


public figures, mayors, many ball players, and movie stars etc. are less well protected.

persona poems rarely use actual quotes. as though someone was there to tape Cleopatra as she made her way down the Nile on her barge of beaten gold. Jesus on the Cross, probably confounds my thoughts. attributing ideas and such to a public figure is one thing---but to quote that public figure is another. what next, President Kennedy murmuring to Mrs. Kennedy with the top of his skull blown back onto the trunk of the limo?

does your poem interest the reader only because of the subject's name. might be fun to find out...

I began my comments by carefully noting my intellectual reservation---my prejudice. i then examined your poem---my review was not entirely negative.
years ago in my libel class we studied a poem that did quote a slave holder---identifying her by name as a signatory to the poem---can't find it now, but the title is Reward....by K. Young i'm almost certain.


So, i raise the question, is it honest to put your thoughts into Marilyn's mouth as quotes? talk to me about her or anyone else to heart's content, but quoting---that crosses a line.

bernie

Kenneth2816
Posts: 1619
Joined: 01 Jun 2008, 09:17

Re: Unforgettable......title change from.... What she Might

#19 Post by Kenneth2816 » 31 Oct 2017, 03:02

Now I'm concerned. Can an Archangel sue? :)

Bernie01
Posts: 777
Joined: 30 Jul 2015, 11:14

Re: Unforgettable......title change from.... What she Might

#20 Post by Bernie01 » 31 Oct 2017, 03:13

Linda---

Ken asks a question---


Billy Collins has an answer:


https://www.ted.com/talks/billy_collins ...

and our recent example in this forum about a poem of Billy. look at those comments---there the code phrase is---bad taste---boring...etc...


bernie

Kenneth2816
Posts: 1619
Joined: 01 Jun 2008, 09:17

Re: Unforgettable......title change from.... What she Might

#21 Post by Kenneth2816 » 31 Oct 2017, 03:56

Bernie. I was just being facetious. To answer your question I liked the poem because of the subjects name.

LindaLinda
Posts: 68
Joined: 08 Oct 2017, 05:13

Re: Unforgettable......title change from.... What she Might

#22 Post by LindaLinda » 31 Oct 2017, 23:19

B.
I think the disagreement is, you assume my words written are quotes, my understanding is that
A Persona poem as an interpretation of what the author feels the character would say or feel.
Which is where I was coming from.
Linda

Bernie01
Posts: 777
Joined: 30 Jul 2015, 11:14

Re: Unforgettable......title change from.... What she Might

#23 Post by Bernie01 » 01 Nov 2017, 01:18

Linda---


yup.


must have been the 20 or so I pronouns. no sarcasm intended. i've re-examined my view.

bernie

FranktheFrank
Posts: 1983
Joined: 02 Mar 2016, 18:07
Location: Between the mountains and the sea

Re: Unforgettable......title change from.... What she Might

#24 Post by FranktheFrank » 01 Nov 2017, 02:30

My image of Marilyn is entirely different to that in this poem,
that's why I have refrained so far from commenting. It is
a work of fiction and in 1st voice, i.e. the person is speaking
in her own voice, not someone else speaking for her. The poem
wasn't exactly my cup of tea but that's no reason for me to
dish it.

The dead cannot be libelled, I did 101 law and that sticks,
libel is the written or recorded defamation of a person built
on lies. Neither can a dead person be slandered, slander
is the spoken word that defames using lies. Recording
the action of a dead person with lies written or spoken
cannot have any legal redress, they are dead and cannot
be offended. If they cannot be offended their enemies
cannot be sued for libel or slander, that is the law in the
UK and other civilised countries. Slander and libel may
get the families angry fit enough to kill, but there still is no
legal redress for slander or libel.

Journalists can be criticised for sloppy reporting of the dead,
but they cannot be sued. Some journalists do operate under
a moral and professional code and that is to be respected.

As I understand it it is our job to critique the poem for any flaws
and help the poet make serious choices about words, phrasing
and content, it is a bonus if in doing so we make friends along the way.
It is, I understand, not expected that we comment on other poets
critiques or comments, we may read those comments but they are
none of our business - they are solely a dialogue between poet
and critiquer and if things get out of hand between the admin also.
Getting involved with this public yet private conversation just inflames
and hinders the workshopping process, we should not be facetious
about other people's critiques.

I have made a general note about critiquing poems because I care
about this forum and I have a huge respect for some of my fellow
poets. I don't expect anyone to comment on this comment, it is
made in good faith and without rancour.

I love the way the forum is developing and wish very sincerely that
it will continues this way for some time without spats.

The poet has every right to respond to the critiquers in any
reasonable way they like.

Best wishes with this poem.

LindaLinda
Posts: 68
Joined: 08 Oct 2017, 05:13

Re: Unforgettable......title change from.... What she Might

#25 Post by LindaLinda » 01 Nov 2017, 05:00

Frank and Bernie, the Forum is all yours, just the way you want it ... I don't have time for this psychobabble
Linda

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