Removed for publishing

Poets post their works-in-progress here for crit and commentary. We want poets who are serious about getting their work published.
Message
Author

FranktheFrank
Posts: 1983
Joined: 02 Mar 2016, 18:07
Location: Between the mountains and the sea

Re: Wooden Shed at Laugharne-V3

#27 Post by FranktheFrank » 23 Jun 2018, 01:08

Thanks Siva

I mean I am tempted to scrub my poem
maybe I am negative, maybe I should
write about some of his glorious works.

Bernie01
Posts: 777
Joined: 30 Jul 2015, 11:14

Re: Wooden Shed at Laugharne-V3

#28 Post by Bernie01 » 23 Jun 2018, 01:50

Frank---


Francesco, the son of Caitlin and Giuseppe Fazio was born well after the death of Dylan Thomas...he had no first hand information about the domestic life of Caitlin and Dylan, more, he never says that his mother told him Dylan beat her.

the poem is yours, the facts are not.



bernie

SivaRamanathan
Posts: 1168
Joined: 14 May 2011, 20:30

Re: Wooden Shed at Laugharne-V3

#29 Post by SivaRamanathan » 23 Jun 2018, 06:06

Frank

Your poem stands as it is. No doubt about that.I was merely stating the universal plight of women poets being subjugated by their male poet-husbands.

S

FranktheFrank
Posts: 1983
Joined: 02 Mar 2016, 18:07
Location: Between the mountains and the sea

Re: Wooden Shed at Laugharne-V3

#30 Post by FranktheFrank » 23 Jun 2018, 10:29

Ahh Bernie
how you love your famous poets
past and present
It does you credit that you love them so.
I am just taking the evidence presented by journalists
who write down in notepads what first account witnesses tell them
they keep their sources close to their chests
and there it is in print.
We trust these journalists, even like doctors,
that they won't lie.

I will remove the offending posts as to Dylan's character
set him in surrounded by a white aura with blazing bright sheild. :)

Thanks Siva, yes I go that, thank you.

Bernie01
Posts: 777
Joined: 30 Jul 2015, 11:14

Re: Wooden Shed at Laugharne - V4 Final Version

#31 Post by Bernie01 » 23 Jun 2018, 21:10

Frank---

the issue is this journalist didn't get her facts right. simple as that.

and you base a very ugly charge (Dylan beat his wife) on that cribbed account. published online, not in a newspaper of record. And even the cribbed account does not say that Dylan beat his wife---that is simply your opinion based on nothing, but stated and now contended as a fact.

poems can say anything when they are clearly the opinion of the writer---but it is very wrong to say and contend this event in your poem is fact....

i'm a trained journalist. I interviewed, one on one former President Truman, many celebrities, we have rules and standards---no statements unsupported by facts. as for keeping sources confidential---poppycock in this case.

i love his poetry, but doubt i would have liked Dylan himself---peeing in relatives dishes, borrowing money he never repaid, surly and pugnacious---hardly there for his three kids---probably a jerk---but no one says he beat his wife....do they?



bernie

FranktheFrank
Posts: 1983
Joined: 02 Mar 2016, 18:07
Location: Between the mountains and the sea

Re: Wooden Shed at Laugharne - V4 Final Version

#32 Post by FranktheFrank » 23 Jun 2018, 21:39

Bernie

Well, I see this is important to you and have modified the poem this morning
it doesn't have to be in the poem, so it has been removed and I have put
something else. Why should I be so negative about him, well, just because
three accounts speak of fisticuffs, riotous living, drunken bouts and arguments.


To me it doesn't sound far from beating ones wife. But to be exact I could have
said fisticuffs, what man fights his wife with a fist. Fisticuffs means both were at it
not just one, they gave as good as they got in other words.


1. there was the Telegraph' account, a very respectable and old British newspaper
which happens to have an online version. The journalist is a woman, unless you
know of her or personally I can't see the Telegraph hiring a dud journalist.
Kathryn Hughes - 11 May 2008


2. There is the Giuseppe Fazio account from his father, it would not stand up in court
because it would be hearsay, but it sounds true to me, why would a son invent such
stuff, Caitlin beat his father. If so she probably fought with Dylan and he hit back.
by Dylan was my mother's ruin
Caitlin used to attack Dylan physically and when she first
met my father she punched him on the nose.
She was known as the drunken wife of Dylan Thomas.
Now Caitlin's son aims to rescue his mother's reputation.
By Ann McFerran
Wednesday 2 December 1998 01:02
3. There is the account from Dylan's daughter, Aeronwy, just before she died
given by the Mail Online. The Daily Mail is a very old British national newspaper
not as conservative as the Telegraph, nevertheless.
Not even their rows and fisticuffs fazed Aeronwy. ‘It was a communication. Caitlin loved a fight and didn’t want my father to be indifferent.’ Such was the emotional chaos they created that in 1945 a jealous husband had fired a sub-machine gun into the New Quay bungalow in which they and baby Aeronwy were staying.
Louette Harding 15 May 2009 Mail Online

You may wish to read this other article, which says nothing of
beating his wife, but does mention beating Mosley's Blackshits.
by Heathcote Williams in the International Times.
“Well, they had to squirrel Mosley out through the back door, didn’t they? He was ranting and squawking “Blasphemy! Blasphemy!” and then the audience weighed in. They attacked the Blackshirts. Dylan and Bert and I, we were all pretty handy with our fists.” Leon looked up at me, and then added, slightly apologetically, “To do good, you know, in this life you must sometimes use your fists. Bit shocking but there we are. ‘What weapon has the lion but himself?’ Know that line? It’s John Keats.
Also a quote on R S Thomas and a Dylan poem.
Dylan’s namesake, R. S. Thomas, was to pay Vernon Watkins a tribute in a poem called ‘The Bank Clerk’: “It was not the shillings he heard,/But the clinking of the waves in the gullies of /Pwll Du. Turning them over/To the customers at the counter/He offered them the rich change/Of his mind, the real coinage/Of language for their dry cheques.”
Another quote from Heathcote Williams backs Ken's assertion that Dylan did not
die from alcohol abuse but rather from the negligence of a inept doctor, asthma
and bronchial pneumonia.
The received wisdom is that Dylan died as a result of a drinking bout in the White Horse Tavern in New York but the story’s authenticity has lately been undermined. For a start, the post-mortem revealed no signs of alcoholic damage to the brain and nor was there any cirrhosis of the liver. It now seems likely that the real cause of Dylan’s death was medical negligence. Four days prior to his death a New York doctor, a Dr. Feltenstein, gave Dylan an unusually high dose of morphine as a sedative.
Although, while he was staying at the Chelsea Hotel in New York, Dylan had boasted to his last lover, Liz Reitell (an assistant at the Poetry Centre in New York who’d helped to stage the first performance of ‘Under Milk Wood’), “I’ve had eighteen straight whiskies. I think that’s a record”, it turned out that Dylan had, in fact, drunk nothing like that amount and that, rather than his suffering from a colossal alcoholic assault on the brain as the legend favors, he was actually suffering from a severe chest infection, probably bronchial pneumonia, possibly undiagnosed diabetes, and he was experiencing extreme breathing difficulties as a result of one or other of these two conditions rather than from an alcoholic stroke, the received wisdom.
In view of this I am obliged to drop the 18 vodkas from the poem and mention
morphine, an inept doctor and bronchial pneumonia.

So it will be Final Final version, not final version.

Thank you for your input I hope I have made amends.

Post Reply