The Sky (version 3!)

[CalebMurdock]

The Sky (version 3)

[BobBradshaw]

This is good. Your best piece. I like it all. No suggestions. My fave line: The sky has been debunked.

[CalebMurdock]

Thank you, Bob. I could kiss you for that.

I posted this first on the other forum, and the one person who gave me a substantial critique said that the middle portion of the poem was just an uninspired recounting of theological history. Since then, I have dressed up the language a bit, so you are not seeing the version that he did, but they are very similar. That person is one of the three who, in my estimation, has written brilliant poetry that I can't touch, so that got me down. However, I am seeing moments of brilliance from you too, so to Hell with him! Your critique means just as much.

I have just made a tweak to the wording in the final stanza, so you might want to read that again.

I still think "meek Redeemed" isn't quite right. "recently Redeemed" has too many syllables. I wanted to use "grateful Saved", but I used "saved" in the first stanza. This poem will still change a bit more before it's finished.

Oh, someone on that forum agreed with you about the "debunked" line.

[FranktheFrank]

so to Hell with him!

We have to accept negative reviews in a positive way, Caleb.
We may not like a review but we should accept it on the premises that it is an honest review
of our work and respect that view unless it is a beastly rely.
And they may be right, and on the other hand they may be wrong or uneducated.
The review process is an old and respected instrument for poets. It should not be personal.
Although it is good to make friends. I had one friend who chided me constantly as if I was
a little boy, I took no offence because I knew the reviewer had a good heart and good intentions
and we became firm friends.

A sharp intellectual review may be more beneficial that an 'easy thumbs up' and a 'jolly good comment.'

[FranktheFrank]

I can't add much more to Bob's comments.

[CalebMurdock]

Thank you, Ieuan, for the thumbs up, and for the friendly lecture.

[CalebMurdock]

I have mentioned the other forum. One of those good writers disagreed with the first commenter (who was critical), and said that my poem was "didactic" but nonetheless good. By then, however, I had done a substantial revision, which I am now posting. The new version is perhaps too clever, with some "asides". Let me know how you like it compared to the first. Please be honest. If I've taken the poem too far into cleverness, I want to know. Thank you.

[BobBradshaw]

This is good, and a fine revision. My only quibble may be with the line about the son being under the father's Thumb. Why is Thumb but not father capitalized? Also, for me this is the weakest line. It isn't as good as the others...maybe because it doesn't feel necessary. I know poets tend to focus on negative comments....but in this case heed my overall opinion: This is good and a fine revision. I really like the poem.

[FranktheFrank]

Theologically you are out in that statement about the thumb.
Mainline churches support the Trinity, that the three are one but distinct.
Even Jehovah Witnesses now say Jesus is equal to the Father
and Oneness Pentecostals say Jesus is the Father. It is as Bob says
an irreverent and unwarranted if not irrelevant line.

[CalebMurdock]

Thank you, Brad. The comment about the son being under the father's thumb was one of those asides that you don't like. I am, to a certain extent, anti-Christian, which is why I included it (because it satisfied me to do so). However, I agree with you that it doesn't add anything to the poem except a witticism. The problem is that it replaced a comment which was a redundancy. which in my view was worse. Capitalizing "thumb" but not "father" was part of the wit. But as you said, it doesn't belong in the poem. I am still working on this version. Among other things, I want the language to flow a little better.

Frank, I wasn't trying to be consistent with church doctrine; I was just being witty, commenting that a son who is forever tied to his father is forever oppressed by that father. However, as I said to Brad, I have decided to write that line out (if I can). Curiously, no one on the other board objected to it. It's interesting how the standards on the two forums are different.

Thanks again for your help. Your perspectives are helpful.

[FranktheFrank]

Caleb,
I understand your position completly.
Its best not to explain your poem or defend it from criticism, although I've done it.
The idea is to post your work
we thrash it or give accolades according to our perspective
That doesn't mean we are right or that you are wrong
the idea is to take from it an outward perspective
that you chew over or ignore.

That keeps personality clashes to a minimum
Some advice I act on years later.

I think you are very open and am sure you will benefit this forum.

[CalebMurdock]

Thank you, Frank. I've been posting on critique forums for thirty years, so I think I know a thing or two.

Let me know what you think of version 3.

[BobBradshaw]

This works. Good poem. Enjoy the holidays.

[CalebMurdock]

Thanks so much, Bob. You too.

[FranktheFrank]

Caleb, you have worked hard on this.
It's your poem, enjoy tinkering. You are getting there.