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PostPosted: 01 Jan 2017, 20:29 
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Just sending out a call to see if anyone has looked into the new Manuscripts to Market novel editing service. It's a spin-off from the New York Pitch Conference, and way overdue if you ask me.

Love you guys! :)

Oh and here's the link if you haven't seen it:
http://manuscriptstomarket.newyorkpitchconference.com

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PostPosted: 01 Jan 2017, 21:42 
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Thanks for sharing. I just checked it out. Here is what impresses me about their service even more than their credentials:

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A three-step editorial process (see more below) includes a preliminary story premise and plot review, a core manuscript development review, and finally, significant follow-up review of the manuscript rewrite. Why? Because there is rarely any such thing as one-shot manuscript editing that results directly in commercial publication. Follow-up reviews are mandatory from our standpoint, especially if we plan on moving successfully toward the querying process.

Six years ago I submitted a poorly written mystery novel manuscript to an editorial service called Iowa Book Editors or Doctors or something like that. They praised the ms ahead of time and I didn't know how bad it really was until I attended a workshop at Tin House over a year later. The Iowa editors did the best they could with if after flattering me into believing it had lots of potential. I was out a few thousand, sent the manuscript to 40 or so agents and bombed.

Even if the Iowa editors hadn't lied to me about the quality of the novel, there is still no way they could have had the monster ready for publication after only one review.


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PostPosted: 01 Jan 2017, 22:09 
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I agree re the three stage process. I've not seen that anywhere else and I've been researching lots of editorial services on Google. Many of them look plain sleazy. Connie Chenowith interviewed Michael Neff on the Writer's Edge and he listed these questions to ask before choosing any novel editing service:

1. Do you get to review the credentials of the individual who will be working on your ms?
2. Do the person's credentials include any real-time experience working in tandem with the New York publishing business, or at least with mid-sized or quality independent presses?
3. Is there a demonstrable track record of commercial or literary publication of any kind associated with past clients of this person? Is the track record relatively recent or really old news?
4. Is the proposed editor person an actual writer of narrative nonfiction or novels? Has the work been self-published or published?
5. Are accolades or testimonials about the business itself focused rather on buzz phrasing than pointers to actual results, i.e., contracts with major houses or agencies?


Thoughts?

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PostPosted: 01 Jan 2017, 22:12 
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If I had more carefully examined Iowa's track record of successful authors I would have seen a red flag immediately. :oops:

I only heard what I wanted to hear.


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PostPosted: 01 Jan 2017, 22:33 
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Something similar happened to me, Mr. Hoffman, but I backed out in time.

Manuscripts to Market isn't cheap. If I hadn't already wasted thousands on useless writer conferences ... One must weigh the potential advantages. Certainly, Michael Neff and Paula Munier are extremely good editors. Michael edited my first chapter once, in a workshop. He turned it around and made it gleam in a way I'd never seen.

He is a nice person also, not full of himself.

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PostPosted: 01 Jan 2017, 22:46 
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Have you read the new edition of his first novel, ALL THE DARK WE WILL NOT SEE?


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PostPosted: 01 Jan 2017, 22:54 
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It was brilliant, and different to the point of tearing a line in the fabric of the universe. The Amazon reviewers agree. I'd give anything if he could edit my work from top to bottom.

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PostPosted: 02 Jan 2017, 00:19 
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You know, so so many of the freelance editors out there are either academics, failed authors, or former editors with publishing houses. In the case of academics they don't believe in writing to a market, which makes them useless if you are writing a genre novel. Failed authors are limited in their vision of what works and what doesn't, whereas former editors at publishing houses are not. However, the former editors, for the most part, are not writers.

I was in one of Paula Munier's workshops at the New York Pitch and she was fantastic! The group was wonderful too, except for this one Russian narcissist who wouldn't stop interrupting and disagreeing.

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PostPosted: 02 Jan 2017, 23:12 
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The narcissists can't be avoided! Are they primarily from Russia these days? Are they working for Putin?

But don't feel so bad, Hoffman. I'll wager that I foolishly lost more than you did. Also, consider that if you attend a New York Pitch conference, you're spending nearly $3000.00 or more for that experience. Spending a bit more for months of close review and consultations seems reasonable. I'm strongly taking it under consideration. My third thriller is going nowhere.

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PostPosted: 04 Jan 2017, 21:20 
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HoffmanB wrote:
If I had more carefully examined Iowa's track record of successful authors I would have seen a red flag immediately.

I'll raise my hand on this one also. It wasn't Iowa, but one of those editing sweat shops. Mediocre line edits and poor development notes. I didn't know better at the time. Everything they said about story development turned out to be wrong. VERY WRONG.

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PostPosted: 05 Jan 2017, 01:43 
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I am currently using the Manuscript to Market and am under the tutelage of Michael Neff. It is the best thing, relative to getting a novel published, I have ever done. Michael is fabulous: down to earth, quick to tell one the truth as he sees it (no sub-text and no lying), has great experience and expertise relative to helping me get my novel where it ought to be.

One of the biggest helps he has been to me is to get me to "kill my darlings" and get on with making changes I need to make to get published. Each time he boldly asked me to think through making changes to my novel, I balked, and when I rewrote a chapter or two, or part of a scene, the book miraculously became a better book. He is a dream to work with, effective and worth every penny.

Paula is a muse as well. She and Michael are a great tag team to help the author.

I feel they both have become friends of mine.

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PostPosted: 07 Jan 2017, 00:46 
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That is the tie breaker. Thank you, good sir!

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PostPosted: 12 Jan 2017, 01:06 
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cdarnell wrote:
Paula is a muse as well. She and Michael are a great tag team to help the author.

I feel they both have become friends of mine.

Wow! I too thank you for chiming in. I'll be contacting them soon. Maybe I can FINALLY get my twenty pounds of novel down to a salable five!

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PostPosted: 09 Feb 2017, 21:28 
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Thank you for sharing new manuscript with us.
I agree with Somberwoman that :

"Manuscripts to Market isn't cheap. If I hadn't already wasted thousands on useless writer conferences ... One must weigh the potential advantages. Certainly, Michael Neff and Paula Munier are extremely good editors. Michael edited my first chapter once, in a workshop. He turned it around and made it gleam in a way I'd never seen."

I will read it for sure.


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PostPosted: 03 Apr 2017, 01:57 
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I enrolled in Manuscripts to Market, and am working with Michael Neff. Our first conversation lasted over an hour and he was amazingly helpful. Weeks later, I'm still working through all I learned in just that one conversation.


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