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Elizabeth
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Re: Coverage Post and Agent Query on Author Salon

#26 Post by Elizabeth » 04 Aug 2012, 00:57

Yes, it's her! She's like a viral meme, spreading and infecting the brains of bad writers everywhere. What melodrama! I've never been F bombed so much. I think there's a spot open for her on the Kardashian show.

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RLmacallister
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Re: Coverage Post and Agent Query on Author Salon

#27 Post by RLmacallister » 04 Aug 2012, 01:22

One of my writer groups completely disintegrated after a single incident. Someone gave a good idea to a new writer for bringing out the best in her short story and another member told the same writer five seconds later that she couldn't use the idea because it wasn't her idea. This started a huge argument over the purpose of critique and writer groups in general and it finally resulted in the group watering down critique from that point forward. It all finally came to a end, not with a bang but a whimper.

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Leekaplan
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Re: Coverage Post and Agent Query on Author Salon

#28 Post by Leekaplan » 04 Aug 2012, 01:51

HoffmanB wrote:The thin skin test made me think about a few things, about myself and how I react in a way that defeats me, especially the questions about "loading the gun" and rushing to defend.
Same here. I was very immature about the process years ago and certainly guilty of the chastising: Have you ever chastised any writer for what you consider to be improper or incorrect critique of your work? I was awful a couple of times. I've since written to apologize.

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LitAgentSalon2
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Re: Coverage Post and Agent Query on Author Salon

#29 Post by LitAgentSalon2 » 04 Aug 2012, 02:54

:arrow: Writer groups must have a strong and wise leadership, if possible, or else the kind of craziness talked about here might well begin to happen, and certain personalities dominate, etc.

Here is a good general dialogue on writer groups that I found recently:
http://www.jungleredwriters.com/2011/08 ... ditor.html
And one I found for Author Salon:
http://www.authorsalon.com/craft/view/51/
Not Too Precious Boutique Literary Agent Keeping Low Profile
Seeking MS on Author Salon
Seeking MS at Algonkian Writers Conferences

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MarleneNolan
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Re: Coverage Post and Agent Query on Author Salon

#30 Post by MarleneNolan » 04 Aug 2012, 19:30

Since were in true confession mode, it's these two questions on the thin skin test that jolted me the most:

Have you ever been in writer workshops and reacted to criticism of your writing or story by demanding the other writer defend their decision in such detail that it served your purpose of making certain they never gave you unfavorable critique again?

Do you receive critique you oppose in good humor, but routinely seek the negation of it from those you know will agree with your version of reality?


I admit that I transitioned between the first one and the second one. By the time I "matured" to the second one, I had the process all worked out. I simply fell back on members of my old writer group to tell me what I wanted to hear. Over 50 agent rejections later and I began to wonder.

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MsASadmin
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Re: Coverage Post and Agent Query on Author Salon

#31 Post by MsASadmin » 05 Aug 2012, 00:15

We have to keep a close eye on you from now on, Marlene. :)

Still want to make a transition from screenplays to novels?
Loving AS Admin Creature
http://authorsalon.com

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MarleneNolan
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Re: Coverage Post and Agent Query on Author Salon

#32 Post by MarleneNolan » 05 Aug 2012, 02:38

I'm far less evil now, I promise Ms. Admin. :oops:

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ASuserChar
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Re: Coverage Post and Agent Query on Author Salon

#33 Post by ASuserChar » 06 Aug 2012, 05:10

A tangent for a moment, did anyone see that perfectly abominable Woody Allen film set in Rome? I think it was the worst script he's ever written. Only one of the four segments actually hung together. The rest didn't hit the points at all.

Here is a review that says it better than I can. It's hard to believe this film received even a single decent review, and I've been an Allen fan for many years.
http://www.chron.com/life/article/Hard- ... 686673.php


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RLmacallister
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Re: Coverage Post and Agent Query on Author Salon

#34 Post by RLmacallister » 06 Aug 2012, 19:51

I agree, it was genuinely terrible. As the article says, it feels rushed into production. Reminds me of my last novel.

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Somberwoman
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Re: Coverage Post and Agent Query on Author Salon

#35 Post by Somberwoman » 11 Aug 2012, 05:46

He should have used the new Author Salon PSCO.
Somber Woman

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Leekaplan
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Re: Coverage Post and Agent Query on Author Salon

#36 Post by Leekaplan » 11 Aug 2012, 06:51

Using it now. I've replaced the whole center using much better plot briefs. Now building to climax with the Six Act complication and reversal requirements.

Wheww!

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HoffmanB
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Re: Coverage Post and Agent Query on Author Salon

#37 Post by HoffmanB » 12 Aug 2012, 09:32

This is the part that turned me around right from the start. I did not have this clearly defined. I mean, I knew what it was, in general, but I had to state it in this way, then I went on to rewrite my synopsis pitch and hook. Plot briefs of the second novel act comes next.

What's the mission? The goal? What must be done? Created? Accomplished? Defeated?

Defy the dictator of the city and bury brother’s body (ANTIGONE)? Place a bet that will shake up the asylum (ONE FLEW OVER THE CUCKOO’S NEST)? Do whatever it takes to recover lost love (THE GREAT GATSBY)? Save the farm and live to tell the story (COLD MOUNTAIN)? Find the wizard and a way home to Kansas (WIZARD OF OZ)? Note that all of these are books with strong antagonists who drive or catalyze the plot line going forward.

Note to Writer: If you can’t write a simple story statement like above (which builds into your hook/log line) then you don’t have a work of commercial fiction. Keep in mind that the PLOT LINE is an elaboration of the statement, of the primary complication. Also, look over the brief summaries of these novels in the Author Connect Deal News. These contain the simple statement, but more elaborated into a short hook.

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LitAgentSalon
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Re: Coverage Post and Agent Query on Author Salon

#38 Post by LitAgentSalon » 12 Aug 2012, 18:52

Please take your time with it, all of you. The PSCO and Six Act Two-Goal notes should alleviate a lot of potential issues and allow us to focus on narrative and scene details.

By the way, I agree regarding the Woody Allen movie. Disappointing.

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ActressTurningWriter
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Re: Coverage Post and Agent Query on Author Salon

#39 Post by ActressTurningWriter » 13 Aug 2012, 22:39

To the Author Salon agent people.

I'm writing a young adult novel about a girl who goes back in time to meet King Arthur, but it all feels so stale. I don't want to be too pathetic but any advice? Is there any market for this kind of story?

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LitAgentSalon2
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Re: Coverage Post and Agent Query on Author Salon

#40 Post by LitAgentSalon2 » 14 Aug 2012, 09:06

Yes, there is, and that's why we accepted you as a member. We won't go over your whole synopsis and premise here, but you should know that it has potential as long as we can instill a sufficiently unique flavor, a different twist on the concept, and I believe that is happening now.

But you are correct in assuming that a stale version of the story won't sell.
Not Too Precious Boutique Literary Agent Keeping Low Profile
Seeking MS on Author Salon
Seeking MS at Algonkian Writers Conferences

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JosiePackard
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Re: Coverage Post and Agent Query on Author Salon

#41 Post by JosiePackard » 14 Aug 2012, 09:24

Actress Turning Writer, you need a good KICK ASS HEROINE! Paula Williams of AS just posted a review of young adult kick ass heroines in the fantasy genre. Here is some of it. Suggest you read this and ass kick your Camelot girl! I've seen her and she needs one.
With the recent hype of HUNGER GAMES and BRAVE, it’s evident the current generation of teenage readers and moviegoers gravitate to strong female heroines (especially those of the bow-and-arrow-toting type). These damsels don’t depend on a prince-charming savior. In fact, Katniss saves the guy and Merida doesn’t even need a guy. Teenage readers nowadays—the majority of whom are female consumers of YA novels—don’t so much need strong badass role models, as much as they need females with strong, kick-ass character.

Badass heroines run the gambit. Some excel in physical strength, but struggle with pride because of their prowess. Rose Hathaway in VAMPIRE ACADEMY exemplifies one of the strongest females in the vampire world. Like Buffy, fighting is second nature with these defender-of-the-weak characters (although Mead’s “weak ones” happen to live among us as civilized vampires). But with all her muscle and bravado, Rose wilts in the presence of her soul mate, which drags her off course throughout the series. Her lack of self-discipline and impulsiveness gets her in far too much trouble. She excels in loyalty—to her guy—abandoning her friends and sworn duty, which makes for an intense romance but not a strong character.

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MsASadmin
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Re: Coverage Post and Agent Query on Author Salon

#42 Post by MsASadmin » 14 Aug 2012, 13:29

Thank you, JP, but we've applied the kick ass filter and she is doing just fine. No need for meow. 8)
Loving AS Admin Creature
http://authorsalon.com

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Merrywithginger
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Re: Coverage Post and Agent Query on Author Salon

#43 Post by Merrywithginger » 14 Aug 2012, 13:54

btw, who trashed Isabel Allende on the Author Salon home page?

She praises her writers, but then says they can't even be taught how to create suspense in a story? That is just ridiculous.

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RobertKing
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Re: Coverage Post and Agent Query on Author Salon

#44 Post by RobertKing » 14 Aug 2012, 20:18

Who does she think she is, Isabel Allende?
I'm pretty darn sure I would be in the 19 out of 20 she has no faith in. :shock:

My wife loves these little emoticon jabbers.

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Arilaradylan
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Re: Coverage Post and Agent Query on Author Salon

#45 Post by Arilaradylan » 14 Aug 2012, 21:34

No one is "trashing" Isabel Allende. She makes the public statement that most writers cannot be taught certain elements of craft or storytelling art, or even how to approach an imaginative premise, and we disagree strongly with her statement.
So Adorable AAS Member
Author Salon.Com


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Elizabeth
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Re: Coverage Post and Agent Query on Author Salon

#46 Post by Elizabeth » 14 Aug 2012, 23:59

If I thought she was right I would give up trying to improve my novel and just self publish. It's Isabel's code for I'm special and if you dare think you can ever learn to write like I do, well think again, because you can't and you never will.

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Somberwoman
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Re: Coverage Post and Agent Query on Author Salon

#47 Post by Somberwoman » 15 Aug 2012, 02:52

If only one out of twenty of her students manifests the ability to apply fundamentals like suspense and tone, then what is that saying about Isabel Allende as a teacher?
Somber Woman

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Leekaplan
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Re: Coverage Post and Agent Query on Author Salon

#48 Post by Leekaplan » 15 Aug 2012, 03:04

Elizabeth wrote:If I thought she was right I would give up trying to improve my novel and just self publish. It's Isabel's code for I'm special and if you dare think you can ever learn to write like I do, well think again, because you can't and you never will.
This might be a little extreme, Liz, but I generally agree with you. She's pitching herself as having bred in the bone talent that can't be taught. This is a self-serving viewpoint by default and she's using her students as evidence. I wonder how they feel about this? She says they write beautifully but they'll never be authors?


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RLmacallister
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Re: Coverage Post and Agent Query on Author Salon

#49 Post by RLmacallister » 15 Aug 2012, 03:40

"The arrogance of the artist is a very profound thing, and it fortifies you."

- James A. Michener

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ActressTurningWriter
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Re: Coverage Post and Agent Query on Author Salon

#50 Post by ActressTurningWriter » 15 Aug 2012, 09:09

Make me her one in twenty and I will happily believe everything she tells me.

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