Manifesto

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judyt547
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Manifesto

#1 Post by judyt547 » 05 Nov 2019, 22:29

Manifesto

unhallowed being the condition
of disgrace, of never to be redeemed
to look and not see
unhallowed in every eye but one

bury the dead where they lie
in shallow graves or public pits
no priest no blessing only the dark
no one wants to believe in
only silence where there should be
ringing voices, alight and welcome--
the final indignity : not the loss of a life
but the loss of an afterlife

carrot on a stick to keep us moving forward
the lie exposed too late
all the begrudging charity
gifts given with less than grace
as penances for indiscretions
as we bought our way into someone else's idea
of heaven, the empty promise of forever
and the threat of an invisible hell

"wait till your Father comes home"

a crisis of faith
reality vs. fantasy
there is no Santa
there is no heaven no hell
no redemption, punishment,
gold star for achievement or a heavenly host
of angels singing allelujia
as you finally attain the right hand
of a god that left a long time ago

This needs new eyes, and possibly some slice-and-dice. I'm thinking, that standalone line in quotes would work
very well for the title

FranktheFrank
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Re: Manifesto

#2 Post by FranktheFrank » 06 Nov 2019, 03:10

There is no Santa that is true - lie a figment of imagination for children and some grown ups

judyt547
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Re: Manifesto

#3 Post by judyt547 » 06 Nov 2019, 04:07

my sweet, one of us is right and one of us is wrong. The only way to find out for sure
is when we die, and then one of us will be horribly surprised.
And that in itself, is a topic for another place.
If this offends, should I take the poem down?

judyt547
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Re: Manifesto

#4 Post by judyt547 » 06 Nov 2019, 07:15

And to be fair I was looking for a crit of the poem, not a crit of the contents, as stated,
or the opinions expressed. That was all. My apologies.

BobBradshaw
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Re: Manifesto

#5 Post by BobBradshaw » 06 Nov 2019, 09:43

This is a poetry workshop, a forum where we help each other improve our craft. It isn't a forum on faith, personal religious beliefs or non-beliefs. Tolerance of others' beliefs(or non-beliefs) is a low threshold we should all be able to meet.

Personally I don't care if a poem is about religious faith or not. I just want to read a quality poem. Diversity of topics and views for me is a wonderful thing.

Kenneth2816
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Re: Manifesto

#6 Post by Kenneth2816 » 06 Nov 2019, 15:25

Judy. Just to say, 99.9% of the poets here are not offended by poems like this. We don't see a spiritual battle, or feel a compulsion to correct the beliefs of another. We don't abuse the forum.

That being said, I'll be back later to comment on the work itself

Kenneth2816
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Re: Manifesto

#7 Post by Kenneth2816 » 06 Nov 2019, 15:28

This is a poetry workshop, a forum where we help each other improve our craft. It isn't a forum on faith, personal religious beliefs or non-beliefs. Tolerance of others' beliefs(or non-beliefs) is a low threshold we should all be able to meet.


A reasonable person would know this without having to be told. Thanks Bob.

FranktheFrank
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Re: Manifesto

#8 Post by FranktheFrank » 06 Nov 2019, 16:15

Hi Judy
not offended
and there is no request or wish for you to remove

I was trying to find the intent
was it to say there is no God or to nudge us one way or 'tother

I will ignore content in future and stick to form

But a poem without content is like straw in the wind in my opine.
There has to be a reason for a poem, and a poem is a statement, yes?

FranktheFrank
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Location: Between the mountains and the sea

Re: Manifesto

#9 Post by FranktheFrank » 06 Nov 2019, 16:16

I assure you this forum is not being abused

judyt547
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Re: Manifesto

#10 Post by judyt547 » 06 Nov 2019, 16:35

whew.

thank you. I know sometimes content overrides form, it can make our eyes water, or our heart slow a bit; in a way it's a painting with words. Some people think Jackson Pollock was a great painter, what he did with color, to them, superceded the technique involved. The rest of us peer at it, and think, what.is.this.

I'd say the intent in either or any discipline is to make a statement, make you think, a bit, and you get to decide why and what and how, and if it gets your attention--or not-- Does it flow; does it need less than there is?

FranktheFrank
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Location: Between the mountains and the sea

Re: Manifesto

#11 Post by FranktheFrank » 06 Nov 2019, 17:25

Judy, relax
you are among friends here
I'm sorry if you felt pressure from my probing. :)

Kenneth2816
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Joined: 01 Jun 2008, 09:17

Re: Manifesto

#12 Post by Kenneth2816 » 06 Nov 2019, 17:37

There is the danger of being too "preachy" in s poem like this. I think the first stanza could be left out..
The last 2 lines are masterful. If there was a way to cut say, " to keep us moving forward" after carrot and stick, and similarity throughout so what precedes the last two lines sets them up .....

judyt547
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Re: Manifesto

#13 Post by judyt547 » 06 Nov 2019, 18:49

Frank, it's okay. I just didn't want this to turn into a holy war.

Kenneth, thanks for the comments. I agree, it's way too easy to get preachy, and very hard to see it in one's own work.

I shall take this back to my desk and see what I can do.

judyt547
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Re: Manifesto 1st revision

#14 Post by judyt547 » 06 Nov 2019, 19:19

Manifesto


honor the dead where they rest at last
in wel-dug graves or public pits
no priest no blessing only the dark
no one wants to believe in
only silence where there should be
ringing voices, alight and welcome--
the final indignity: not the loss of a life
but the loss of a promised afterlife

carrot on a stick
the lie exposed too late
all the begrudging charity
gifts given with less than grace
as penances for indiscretions
as we bought our way into someone else's idea
of heaven, the empty promise of forever
and the leaden threat of an invisible hell

a crisis of faith
reality vs. fantasy
there is no Santa
there is no heaven no hell
no redemption, punishment,
gold star for achievement or a heavenly host
of angels singing allelujia
as you finally attain the right hand
of a god that left a long time ago

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